[logback-user] commons-logging -> sl4j -> logback

[Chris Pratt]

Ummm, this has nothing to do with log configuration.  So how would Groovy
log configuration help?
  (*Chris*)
On Feb 11, 2013 3:42 AM, "Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen" <thunderaxiom at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> You have started on the journey which will eventually result in that you
> have embedded _*yet*_ another runtime scripting language inside your java
> program[1].  This is what most “I need more power from my configuration
> strings” end up with in my experience.****
>
> ** **
>
> At this point I think you should rethink your use-cases.  What do you
> actually need?  Would it be solvable e.g. with Groovy code in your logback
> configuration file instead?****
>
> ** **
>
> [1] From Wikipedia: *Greenspun's tenth rule of programming* is an aphorism<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphorism>
>  in computer programming<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming>
>  and especially programming language<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming_language>
>  circles that states:[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun's_tenth_rule#cite_note-1>
> [2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun's_tenth_rule#cite_note-graham-2>
> ****
>
> Any sufficiently complicated C<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)>
>  or Fortran <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran> program contains an ad
> hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_bug>,
> slow implementation of half of Common Lisp<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp>
> .****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* logback-user-bounces at qos.ch [mailto:logback-user-bounces at qos.ch] *On
> Behalf Of *Chris Pratt
> *Sent:* 8. februar 2013 17:34
> *To:* logback users list
> *Subject:* Re: [logback-user] commons-logging -> sl4j -> logback****
>
> ** **
>
> In my case, a positional positioning formatter is just the beginning.  The
> most important thing is a formatter that supports reflection, since there
> is no other way to allow specification of nested object hierarchies without
> requiring the programmer to always dereference those hierarchies whether
> the data will be used or not.  If you have to call
> user.getName().getFirstname() to pass to the logging system (not to mention
> the two '+'s you're likely to need to get it into the message) you have
> degraded your production performance to get the data you need to debug a
> potential problem in the field.  If you could have specified it as ("User:
> {0.name.firstname} from {0.address.city}, {0.address.state}",user) it would
> have incurred no up front cost unless the statement was actually going to
> be used.  The positional nature of the parameters in this case is as much
> about parameter reuse as it is rearranging.****
>
>   (*Chris*)****
>
> ** **
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 8:12 AM, David Harkness <david.h at highgearmedia.com>
> wrote:****
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen <
> thunderaxiom at hotmail.com> wrote:****
>
> I think the primary focus for this facility has been raw speed.****
>
> ** **
>
> As well it should, IMHO. The goal for me is to provide a meaningful
> diagnostic of what's going on without impacting the running system too
> much, both when logging is turned on and off.****
>
>  ****
>
> In my understanding the primary usage of positional is to be able to
> translate sentences more fluently into another human language.****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes, it allows the parameters in externalized messages to be reordered
> while translating to other languages. I think if you're going to this much
> trouble to produce messages for the user, they are important enough to be
> left on all the time. Thus, you can pay the cost to format the message
> up-front using a tool more suited to that task and hand them off to the
> logging system.****
>
> ** **
>
> I don't see a strong need for positional parameters.****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
>
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>
> ** **
>
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