At 20:17 5/1/2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: >one of the mistakes we made when JCL was created was that there were no >real application framework folks involved (at least in a positive >fashion). so, i'm keen to hear what niclas has to say. Yes, of course, Niclas too. My bad. -- Ceki Gülcü The complete log4j manual: http://www.qos.ch/log4j/